Love, Sex, And Relationships
September 6th, 2007 by Manchild
It’s no secret that Christian marriages are still failing at an alarming rate. Why? I honestly don’t know. But today’s provocative post about love, sex, and relationships will present a few questions about the monogamous relationship Adam shared with Eve to provoke thought. Like many of you, my heart’s desire is to make love work, maintain an intimate, healthy relationship with my wife so that our marriage will last till death parts our paths.
I, too, am still searching for a few answers in a proactive attempt to help our generation break the generational cycle of divorce that’s destroying our families. Doing the reading and research required to prepare for the “Women Of The Bible” series revealed something that I’d like to share with you today. I’m still searching the Scriptures found in Genesis 2 and 3 to discover specific details about the health of the intimate relationship Adam “allegedly” shared with Eve while living in the Garden of Eden.
Since Eden means, “place of pleasure,” here’s a perfect man and a perfect woman that God made for each other who had it all. Adam and Eve had a legitimate “marriage made in Heaven,” a sanctified, sexual relationship that was holy, ordained, and blessed by God.
According to the Scriptures, the Master Potter deliberately, and with premeditation, tailor-made a woman for Adam and nobody else. Since God created Adam, it’s safe to assume that Adam was perfect in every way before his great fall from grace.
Since our Creator doesn’t make any mistakes, one can only imagine how beautiful, how blessed, and how alluring Eve must have been to Adam. Adam had the perfect partner to share his life with for all of eternity. Imagine how much Adam must have loved and adored Eve. Since God created Eve while Adam slept, this woman literally became this man’s “dream come true.”
But what about Eve? Here’s where this epic love story gets interesting because some traditional, long-standing assumptions have been made about the first family’s divinely ordained marriage. Has anybody else out there in the blogosphere ever ponder the possibility that Eve never felt the same way about Adam?
Nowhere in the Scriptures does it ever say that Eve “loved” Adam. But don’t take my word for it, take a look for yourself and tell me what you find. Can it be that Eve just wasn’t that into Adam? Maybe Adam didn’t “fit the profile,” didn’t “measure up,” didn’t meet her expectations.
Ladies, how would you describe the man of your dreams, the man you’d ask God to tailor make just for you if given the opportunity? Only God and Eve know if Adam was tall, dark, and handsome, if he had a six pack, if he was a good hunter, if he could sing a love song like Luther Vandross. But what if Adam wasn’t all that Eve expected from the man of her dreams?
If Eve was just as enamored, infatuated, and as in love with her ideal man as Adam was with his ideal woman, how in the world did the “original down low brother” manage to get her undivided attention? Maybe Adam didn’t satisfy Eve, didn’t listen when she talked, didn’t know how to communicate with her. Maybe Adam didn’t have what it takes to make the heavens and the earth move when they made love together.
Maybe Eve “felt” lonely, bored, and had grown tired of living a mundane existence with a nice man, a good man, a predictable man who never made her cry, never gave her any drama. Did Eve need Adam as much as he needed her since it wasn’t good for a man to be alone? If Adam was indeed the perfect man for Eve, how did some charismatic snake in the grass manage to successfully seduce his woman?
What empty promises did the father of lies proffer to distract Eve while Adam was “allegedly” standing right beside his woman? Had Adam become so emotionally disconnected from Eve that he didn’t know Satan found a way to get his hedonistic, misogynistic hooks into her? Do you ever wonder if Eve cried out to her man for help or ask the question, “Adam, where are you?” because Adam was missing in action?
Why didn’t Adam intervene, do what real men do, and kick Satan to the curb before a bad thing could happen to these good people? Before God created Eve, did something go terribly wrong with Adam? Maybe Adam had issues that didn’t get revealed until it was too late to reconcile their intimate relationship with God. Have you ever pondered the possibility that Satan had also attempted to seduce and deceive Adam before God created Eve to be her husband’s helpmate?
Do you ever wonder what prompted to God say that it wasn’t good for a man to be alone? Did Adam develop some type of pathological, dysfunctional behavior because he walked alone in the garden of earthly delights long enough to become too lonely for his own good? I wonder why God never said the same thing in the Scriptures about a woman. Do you?
What did Satan say, or do, that Adam didn’t say or do? What were the persuasive, albeit deceptive, words that flowed out of the perverted mouth of this fallen, false angel of light that convinced Eve to “doubt” God’s words in the first place? Did Satan convince Eve that Adam “wasn’t good enough” for her? Can it be that Eve didn’t appreciate Adam, wasn’t content with the perfect man God created, and secretly desired a “bad boy,” “a gangsta,” a “street thug” that she could hate to love for more than one night?
Quick question. How many married people do you personally know who are living with a person they secretly hate to love? Can it be that sharing a love that’s worth receiving and giving is an act of faith that a person chooses to do without ever expecting anything in return. I wonder if God is the only one who loves a cheerful giver? Think about it until the next time we meet.
– To Be Continued –
Copyright 2007 by Roderick O. Solomon. All Rights Reserved.
Manchild, I have tried to discuss the bible’s female perspectives with several friends & they tell me I shouldn’t question it – but God gave me this inquisitive nature, so i just don’t talk to THEM about it anymore;-). My greatest issue WITH the Bible (that is the word of God passed down thru the hands of MEN) is that it is the MALE perspective at that time. Clearly, Eve had a reason to be dissatisfied – Adam “sold her out” with the QUICKNESS! He did NOT stand up for his woman when God came & asked about the apple. In short – Adam was a PUNK (yea, I said it;-).
Hmmmm – maybe more than actual pain at child-birthing – our greatest female tribulation since the fall from grace is finding a DESIRABLE mate! Wow – u’ve given me more to think about!
Hello Capcity,
Thank you for commenting. Despite all the challenges people have with the Scriptures, nobody can deny the example of leadership Jesus displayed when He “chose the nails” to save our souls from a clear and present danger.
What Jesus did gives a fatally flawed man like me hope. What Adam did to Eve doesn’t give me or the women God gifted to us hope. Eve became Adam’s scapegoat. Adam shifted the blame instead doing what real men do. Adam failed to accept responsibility for making bad choices.
This love, sex, relationship series will last as long as necessary because we, as men, must do a better job of loving, honoring, and respecting all women. Our individual abilities to do what real men do has nothing to do with the infallibility of the Bible I read to inspire me to keep risin’ after every fall.
Thanks for steppin’ up to the plate of personal responsibility and sharing some real talk. Together, we can make a difference.
Manchild
Wow! Now that got me to thinking, quite a bit, perhaps, and i’m sure that Satan had already worked on Adam’s mind..that’s his way, to divide and conquer, so when he went to work on Eve, the plan had already been put into place…we see it everyday, we think the grass is greener, only because we let outside influences enter into our relationship and judge by what others think and say, instead of what is real, and what we know. I have learned much in my past relationships and i vow not to let Satan or anyone else divide and conquer in the future. Great Post!
Hello Mizrepresent,
Thank you for taking the time to post a comment. We must never forget that Satan is supernatural and, therefore, must be engaged with spiritual weapons. The prince of darkness was once a beautiful angel of light. How ironic!
With all the mega-churches and houses of worship that permeate this great nation, why are so many Christian marriages still failing? What are we, as Christian soldiers, not doing? Why are we still living spiritually impotent lives?
Maybe we’re making the same mistakes Adam and Eve made when they “underestimated” public enemy number one. Maybe our faith is dead because we’re not putting in the work necessary to become “more than a conqueror.
We can learn much from Adam and Eve if only God’s children will “slow our rolls” and study to show ourselves approved. This “Love, Sex, and Relationship” series will continue as long as necessary because I honestly believe the promises of God.
Thank you for sharing. Men and women have so much to learn from one another. But if one doesn’t know the truth about their history, one is prone to keep making the same mistakes over and again.
Manchild
I love this post. One of the best, most thought-provoking that I’ve read in ages…I was raised Catholic, went to a “convent” school (Lord help me) and had two great aunts that were nuns, but God also granted me with a suspicious mind – one thing that can be said for women is that we learn the lessons of our fore-mothers – and with the onset of puberty came a large dose of outrage at the fate of our original parents. Poor Eve! This is the classic “I wouldn’t marry you if you were the last man on earth” scenario!! What she should have done is left the two blokes to their games and busied herself with some therapeutic pruning. S.
I know why christian marriages are failing at an alarming rate. People are getting married sooner because of their religious ideals!
They want to have sex and some of them are having sex but don’t want to get caught and frowned upon by their families, local gossip mongers or, the church crowd.
Thus the parents throw a huge elaborate wedding which puts the couple in debt from the beginning. Then they are expected to live the most consumerist life possible. Fancy house, nice furniture, big television, and the list goes on. All in the name of good, clean christian living. So these people, who sometimes are quite young, get credit cards. And with those credit cards they buy very important “stuff”.
Eventually when the debt becomes too great, the stress wears down the sexual attraction turned possible love based relationship and the people stop talking, stop listening, stop loving. Start detesting every moment spent with their partner.
That my friend, is the problem posed in your first sentence. I hope I cleared things up.
By the way, open your eyes and think for yourself. Just because some book written 2, 000 years ago tells you how to live today, doesn’t mean it applies to today’s way of life.
Nobody fits into the little boxes of “perfection” that are imposed on us, why pretend?
Human is what we are, and until we are something else, we will continue to pretend to live by a code that outdated and set forth for reasons of mass control.
hi manchild, great post very thought provoking indeed…..i am a muslim and mind you the stats of divorce in my country is quiet alarming as well. Dunno why but lots of elements involved – loyalty, monetary, maturity level, peer pressure etc.
Hi. I wanted to let you know that even though I’m an atheist, this blog has got me wondering again. No proselytizing could do what your questioning just did… maybe I’ll be a believer yet. It helps to know that even “good Christians” still have questions… I was raised to think that if you were really a “good Christian” you could never wonder about the Scripture, so I decided that I obviously wasn’t a good Christian, and quit believing.
Thanks.
-Rachel
In a nutshell, Adam and Eve’s fall and Jesus’ complete obedience demonstrated that it is not the circumstance that determines our obedience to God. It is the condition of our heart that determines whether or not we will be obedient to God.
Jesus, Adam and Eve were perfect. Adam and Eve were disobedient under perfect circumstances. Jesus was completely obedient in an imperfect situation.
You cannot love anything else more than God. Period.
God has given us all the power of choice and free wills. It is up to us to either worship God with our free wills. We have to choose this day whom we will serve.
I can appreciate so much people thinking for themselves. Being critical thinkers, especially when it concerns scripture, is so important, because the Bible is so maligned these days (actually, that stance is not much different than it was 2000 years ago anyway).
Yet, the problems in marriages today in Western society extend so much farther than the simplistic, “getting married sooner because of religious ideals” position. Because it’s not just Christian marriages failing. It’s not just people who are getting married sooner than later. No one is immune. It doesn’t depend on race. It doesn’t necessarily depend on age. It definitely doesn’t depend on class.
Fortunately, there are things called “principles” that work no matter what religion you espouse. Honor, respect, patience, communication… And while Manchild loves Jesus and views Scripture as authoritative for him, he goes above and beyond what he’s been “taught.” He actually meditates and thinks about this material constantly. I’m amazed at the things he thinks about, and how he thinks about them. If that isn’t thinking for himself, I don’t know what is.
Yet, people who comment without getting to know the person behind words by reading what’s in a person’s blog are those who don’t think critically. What they’ve done is taken words out of context, just like many preachers and pastors do today.
So to Crystal, I say, please take the time to get to know the person behind the blog. You’ll find that he does think for himself. And you might learn something in the process, if you open yourself up to do so.
I’ve always wondered, frankly, why the first to eat of the fruit stood by so passively when God came into the garden and questioned His children, yet the one who was supposedly fooled into tasting the fruit was quick with a lie….
It’s the experienced liar who has a story ready- and the victim who gets the blame…
MEN wrote the Bible- Adam and his sons presumably kept their history …
And, AttorneyMom?
Adam and Eve were indeed made perfect BY God – but Jesus was perfect because he WAS God.
It’s the difference between doing as you’re told, and following a path you laid down for yourself.
Hiya Manchild,
very thought provoking I have no idea. I try to read the bible but I just donot understand it, will my interpetation really reveal the true meaning? My man wants me to read the bible and I wavier. I consider myself a spiritual person but I know I need to dig into the bible one day~ I love your perspectives and I do believe in marriage, shouldn’t they all be blessed from above?
I’m taillights
harleyblues
Hello SimoneM,
LOL! Thank you for commenting. As a man, I’m not happy that Adam unwisely chose to make Eve his scapegoat. Real men accept full responsibility for their actions.
As a young child, I used to be an altar boy for the Catholic church my parents attended. But I never understood anything the Catholic priest said so I got bored. Besides, I didn’t like confessing my sins to mortal men who could never save my soul.
Knowing that Jesus “chose the nails” just to show the world how much God loves imperfect person like me unconditionally changed my life forever. It’s true! Knowing the truth will make you free.
Manchild
If God made Adam perfect, and gave him Eve, perfect for him—-for the mere purpose or reproduction to enable the world to grow, then wouldn’t you think that Eve felt the same about Adam? Knowing that God created these two to match up- would you doubt God’s matchmaking skills? Interesting to think about it. But, we don’t know how Eve felt about Adam, because those were years and years and years ago. We can only assume—and most of all—“believe”.
If Eve wasn’t fond of Adam in that way, she couldn’t have possibly been a lesbian. Hmm, if that were an option, maybe the world would have never existed! (ha)
Anyway, in all seriousness, I truly believe that each relationship is unique and special. The ones that are based upon lust and promiscuity are the ones that end up with the fine line of loving to hate your spouse type of deal. “Crimes of passion” come into play- why? “Passion” can ruin all relationships. Passion is good, but a foundation of love and respect above all is better. A foundation of “friendship” is the key in a successful relationship. This, being my own opinion.
Great post!
Hello Crystal,
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. What you’ve shared happens quite frequently to children who are still trying to please parents for whatever reasons. Quick question. Are you married or have you ever been married but are now divorced? Your passionate comment sounds like you’re angry about something.
Although I’m curious by nature, I had to learn how to think critically about what grown folk in positions of power mislead gullible children to believe. As evidenced by this blog, I dance to the beat of a different drummer. I love thinking people who refuse to suffer inside boxes that stifle creativity and personal growth.
I do agree with you that overwhelming credit card debt and poor money management is still the number one reason marriages fail. But what about the marriages that fail between the wealthy, rich, and famous who appear to have it all? Material things and “stuff” don’t make people happy as evidenced by all the celebrity marriages that are also falling apart due to “irreconcilable differences” or “domestic violence.”
Christian marriages between two publicly professing believers and followers of Jesus Christ fail for the same inexplicable reasons marriages between two imperfect people who share a diversity of cultural traditions, personal preferences, and religious beliefs.
Because the elusive answer I’m seeking as to why our marriages are still failing at a alarming rate is not as simple as you’d like to believe, you have not cleared up anything. I hope you will safe enough to keep participating in future discussions as our group of imperfect people think critically about the Scriptures presented in the Bible we hold with unclean hands.
Manchild
Hello Azra,
Thank you for participating in this provocative, but peaceful and respectful, discussion. All who dwell under the sun are welcome to join our culturally diverse community.
I don’t have all the answers won’t pretend like I do know why our marriages are failing miserably but I’m willing to try. This is just the beginning of an ever-evolving series of posts that will challenge all who freely chose to participate to think critically about what we’ve been taught.
We, as men, have so much to learn from the women God has gifted to the world. Unlike Adam, I don’t blame the women for what’s wrong with humanity’s ever-evolving “merry-go-round of “make-believe.” Something is terribly wrong and has been for too long now.
We, as men, have failed to make women feel safe and secure in our presence. We must do better. No more excuses for the domestic violence that’s still stalking “man’s most valuable resource.”
Manchild
Hello Rachel,
WoW!! Thank you for feeling comfortable enough to make your presence known. I hope you will always feel safe and secure in the presence of a “humbled man” with many great weaknesses. I’ve prayerfully petitioned God to allow the work we do here by faith to have an eternal impact on the lives of the people we contact with this “non-monetized” blog.
You have expressed one of the reasons this blog hopes to address. I, too, have been accused of not being a “good Christian” for refusing to go-along just to get-along with the self-exalted religious leaders their followers treated like “little gods.”
Good Christians do think critically about biblical text in the context in which it has been presented. The Scriptures do challenge good Christians to “meditate” on God’s word day and night and to “study” to “show ourselves approved.”
Rachel, let no man deceive you. That also includes allegedly “bad” Christians like me. We have much to learn from one another as this series evolves.
Manchild
Hello Attorney Mom,
Thank you for contributing to this conversation. I agree with you that God gave us all “free will.” It is by choice that imperfect people learn how to love one another in the same manner that Jesus Christ loves the church — unconditionally and sacrificially.
1 Corinthians 13 is a great place to learn how God wants imperfect people to love one another like Jesus Christ when He walked with us. Loving one another may become extremely difficult at times but never will it become impossible to all who honestly believe we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.
Manchild
Hello My Queen,
KWiz, thank you for defending my honor by making it known that I take the privilege of blogging seriously. Preparing posts worthy of the time it takes to read them requires much more research, effort, and energy than I previously thought.
Thank you for loving me and our daughter and for faithfully standing by my side instead of leaving me during my darkest hour when tale bearers and false accusers tried to assassinate my character without probable cause. Adam learned the hard way that God will never allow a lie to outlive the truth.
I do hope and pray that all who exercise your free wills to visit this blog will do so in the spirit of love, not hate. If possible, take time to read my previous posts instead of jumping to conclusions and making hasty judgments about the humbled, God-fearing man who’s still standing behind this blog on bended knee.
I love you.
Hello Kit,
Thank you for stopping by and sharing your thoughts about this provocative post. In all honesty, I’m not sure what you meant by your opening statement. I’m assuming that you’re saying that Eve disobeyed God before Adam did and that Adam unwisely blamed Eve for his mistake. Isn’t it interesting that over 2000 years later, myopic, misogynistic men are still blaming women for what’s wrong with the world?
Why did Adam lie? Think about it. Did you, as a child, ever get caught with your hand in the cookie jar? I did. Did you ever get away with the cookies only to get confronted later by your parents when they noticed they were missing? I did. If you answered yes to either question, remember the fear you felt? I do. I can only imagine the level of fear Adam and Eve must have felt while hiding from their Creator after they got caught betraying God’s trust.
It’s my honest belief that God’s love divinely inspired imperfect “men” to write the Scriptures found in the Bible. Only God knows if hate motivated insecure men, with hidden agendas, to deliberately alter the contents of the Bible by tampering with the biblical text we find in the Scriptures. Woe unto them if they did.
Nevertheless, what I do know is that Jesus Christ still lives and every one of the 4 Gospels accounts I read still gives me many a reason to remain hopeful during such a treacherous season as this. It doesn’t surprise me that the “father of lies” and the “master of confusion” is still trying to invalidate God’s infallible word and obfuscate the truth with rumors, half-truths, and true lies.
Manchild
Hello HarleyBlues and TailLights,
I so appreciate your honesty. Don’t feel like you’re the only one struggling to understand the Scriptures. I still struggle on a daily basis to properly interpret and comprehend the Bible’s divinely inspired text.
Because God’s thoughts are much higher than our thoughts and God’s ways are so different than our ways, we lack the intellectual acuity to understand the Bible without divine help. I do know that if we humble ourselves and ask, God will bless us with the wisdom and understanding we need to effectively read the Bible.
I hope you understand that doubting the truth about the Scriptures as presented in the Bible is not the same as thinking critically about the Scriptures. A Bible believing Christian’s “faith-based” decision to trust God extends far beyond any shadow our “fear-based” doubts may cast due to our limited understanding.
Thank you for sharing.
Manchild
Hi Manchild,
What a thought provoking post! I find it interesting that at this point in my life, I’m finding so many Christians online that inspire me to study the bible. I’ve been very discouraged with the churches in my community and thus stopped attending.
Back on topic – I think Christians as well as non-believers are getting married and not taking the union very seriously. Those vows are pretty serious “for richer or poorer”, “in sickness & in health”, “for better or worse” – if I had thought long enough about it myself – I might have run….lol. We live in a microwave culture where we expect to “have it our way”. So often when we are challenged we take the easy way out. When we marry, divorce should not be an option, unless of course there is abuse involved. It seems we just punk out when the “going gets tough”. Unfortunately the fallout of all of these divorces is blended families…whew…that’s a whole post in and of itself…
Unfortunately this post does not pertain to me as I am not married. But thank you for making me aware of your post.
I’ve known several people who stayed with mates when others would ask, “Why in the world don’t you leave?” In most cases the so-called “nice” mate was addicted to drama. Anything less was boring. So I guess they were with people they “loved to hate”.
Others stayed because they could blame anything that didn’t go right in their lives on that “bad mate”. You know what I mean, “I’d be doing better career wise if I had a woman I could count on.” “I’d be a lot better off if this man wasn’t holding me back.” Much easier than stepping out on your own and facing failure with no one else to take the responsibility but you.
As for Adam and Eve, that’s an interesting examination. I’ve always accepted that both felt the same toward each other. Nothing says Eve “loved” him, but nothing in the Bible says she didn’t either.
Umm wow.
Just read through the responses. Nice blog. Made me think. I hadn’t really been taking this marriage thing seriously because of bad examples. Hard to believe when you don’t see, right? Guess that is what faith is all about. Anyway, nice post. Keep it up!
God bless.
Wow! What a introspective post. Thanks for sharing, Manchild.
Let’s see. Where do I begin? First off, I have to say I probably concur with the first commentor, Capcity, more than anyone else. After three years of intense study, I have my own issues concerning the Bible and the editorial license that has been thrust upon it over the centuries.
With that said, in light of the many interesting interpretations of the story of Adam and Eve and how it has been used to oppress women – particularly women in the church – for years, I conclude that the primary reason there are so many divorces – even in the church – is due to people’s unrealistic and unmet expetations concerning marriage. Unfortunately, the likes of the circumstances surrounding Juanita Bynum and Bishop Thomas Weeks personifies this.
While I have never been married – and based on what I know now, compared to what I knew when I was younger, I am glad that this is the case – I know that marriage is and can be hard work. Too often I have heard things from married friends like, “If I had known then, what I know now, I would have waited to marry or would have never married [him].”
I also get comments like “Why didn’t anyone tell me this before I got married?” Or, the more interesting one, “I wish I could trade places with you.”
I love the idea of a good, loving marriage between two people with similar values and core perspectives to help ensure a harmonious household. I hate the idea of being legally tied to someone you hate.
Sorry about the long comment. However, interestingly enough, this has been a topic I have come across a lot lately.
Feel free to also refer to a post I did in early August entitled: What’s Not to Love About Sex & Love (http://whyblackwomenareangry.blogspot.com/2007/08/whats-not-to-love-about-sex-love.html).
Again, great post Manchild. If people thought more like this before becoming romantically caught up – let alone married – I’m sure we’d have less divorces in our communities – period.
CBW
Solomon -
I’m jealous of the way you write…
The way you think…
Anyway, this article is amazing.
Where do I begin?
You’ve provoked my thinking. I never once realized that Adam could’ve been alone going stir crazy from loneliness for a bit before God the Father created Eve for him.
(Seeing as though a thousand years is like a day to Him.)
And yet, we know Eve still had plenty of respect for Adam, because after Satan tempted her (going after the “weakest link” I guess he figured craftily) by placing doubt in her mind (Did God really say…), Eve still took the evil proposition to her husband.
That’s where Adam dropped the ball. That’s where we all do, and thank the Lord for His plan of redemption, or we’d all be toast.
You’ve broken down the Garden of Eden in a way that I’ve only studied and cried over the Song of — hey, wait a minute! — Solomon, with its visual imagery of lovemaking between a husband and wife.
But even with all that hotness, the love goes wrong in the middle and the man is off in the streets somewhere.
This is so appropriate because a Christian married couple who are good friends just let me know they are splitting up and I’ve been thinking about it a lot lately…
When are you going to write the next part?
Oh Manchild, as happens so often with me, I wrote a (too) elaborate comment and lost it. Still, it’s enlightening to find a fresh take on old Adam and Eve. The Bible’s emphasis on human love is all directly toward God and/or Jesus.
People of faith same as those struggling with it don’t find much holy instruction for their romantic passions. Many people crave that heaven- and earth- kind of love where two souls can travel through life, loving and praying as one. But examples are parse. Ancient life gave it little quarter: marriages concerned paternal financial arrangements, dowries, etc.
Man and woman and whatever faith they may call their own have few to no examples of virtuous, lifelong love.
A Korean friend once told me of a Buddhist legend. An especially promising and holy monk once crossed a stream slightly behind a young woman who lifted her robes just above her ankles and a bit of her calves to keep them dry. The monk saw her feminine ankles and lower leg and his monastic life was done. He wanted to marry the girl and spend his days loving her and the two of them praying and loving Buddha together, as one. In the story that uniquely accepting God-figure showered them with praise and even richer spiritual gifts. Lifelong human love is a divine gift, which is actually bestowed on fewer of us rather than more.
How did I miss this post!
I will come back read (again) and make my contribution…but till then I would like to say this.
I really dont believe there is a “perfect” mate not in the fallen world of ours…if we can renew our minds about that it would help not put so much pressure on ourselves and mates( future or present)
As a woman and what I tell my single friends is …a man(woman) the loves and fears the Lord, cares about me and is my friend and also I find attractive
but really that is all you need the rest is by total submission to God in your relationship… Ok after all that you think it would be easy …No! it’s not, cos the enermy wants to distrroy marrieges so he can destroy the next generation that he fears…
Marriage is most challenging..and Ipersonnal would knpw…we as christains are not alway true about the struggles we face as a couple ..the differeny changes …Yes1 you will feel like a divorce some things in the course of your marriage …i have been there several things …. but it is with good council and a heart that wants to server the Lord that keeps me going…
i could go on about this…but i trully believe that nothing one can not forgive and over come in a marriage that has two ppl that was to honour God ….Marriage I still stand is till death do you part. and I pray for that in mine and as a generation…put we as the body of Christ should get to that place where we are ready to be reall about the battles and encorage one another…
will be back….blessings!
( did not read through before submitting)
pls, exscuse any typos or spelling mistake and hope I made some sense …
Hi Manchild;
I think in a perfect garden there would have been no serpent, therefore the idea of the garden itself was imperfect. In a perfect relationship there would have been no need for lies or betrayal, therefore the relationship was also imperfect as were both Adam and Eve, for neither of them were Gods.
Marriages go wrong for many reasons, one of which is the expectation we set for ourselves that ideally, everything will be perfect just because we are in love. Then when things go wrong we blame each other for not living up to those expectations when in reality we ourselves are just as responsible for having such an extorted view of how things should have been to begin with. It’s unrealistic to think that love conquers all even as much as we would like to hope so. There are just too many outside influences complicating our lives.
Did Adam truly love Eve? Did Eve truly love Adam? Or were they merely making do with what they were each given? What if God had created three women and given Adam a choice? Would he then have settled for Eve? Who knows.
I think you could ponder the idea for centuries and still not come up with the difinitive answer.
Very thoughtful and quite interesting post.
Take care;
Anna
Personally, I think that Eve was satisfied with Adam. I think she got curious and listened to Satan and though she DID know better, she felt it was better to satisfy that curiosity (sin). When I look at Adam, I think of men who won’t lead in the home, won’t bring order, refuse to take responsibility, won’t speak up and most importantly did not look to God and say Father I need help because Eve and I both failed you. He and Eve learned about shame, truth and the ridiculous idea that they could hide from God. As my dad, my brother and I have discussed, only men can HONESTLY and without FEAR confront another man. If a man will not begin to bring his home under God’s order, then ….. but I digress. The lesson of Adam and Eve has meant to me the need to be transparent and honest with God about yourself, your weaknesses, and how you failed in your responsibilities. I am in no way trying to remove Eve from the equation, she should have humbled herself and spoke up and apologized to God immediately as well. Eve also should have tried to make amends (repent). Adam and Eve were both equally responsible to God for their actions. However, according to the Bible, Adam put all of the blame on Eve. That was a major fallacy. He knew and had a personal relationship with God before Eve came into existence. I beleive God expected Adam to know and to do better that Eve for that reason alone.
Why are our marriages failing at an alarming rate, we are out of order. Men need to be reminded to lead their households with kindness, tenderness, determination, to be submissive to their wives when she is leading where she is strong and to have a tenacious attitude about keeping the spark in the relationship and allowing it to grow and change in the ways that it needs to. Men and Women need to remember that their joy is not in their spouse it is in God. Stop making your spouses into idols. Women too need to be reminded to be kind, to laugh more, to be submissive when their husbands take the lead where he is strong, to have a tenacious attitude about keeping the spark in the relationship and allowing it to grow and change in the ways that it needs to. Only when we get here, where we encourage and love each other and look beyond things, stuff, others expectations etc. can we get the unconditional love that God does wants us to grant to each other.
I am a single woman who is whole and complete by God’s grace. I do not understand all the intricacies of marriage, however I have been very blessed to see it in action with my parents for 34 yrs. This question is a serious one, and I am glad to see a man taking the lead in attempting to , to address the issue and to help us all in making our romantic male/ female relationships better, stronger and longer lasting.
Hi Manchild, I’m here to comment at your request. I’ve read your post and though you have some interesting thoughts on the subject, I’m afraid I don’t agree completely, if I understand you correctly. I do not agree that Eve may not have been satisfied with her mate. The reason I don’t agree with that is because before she ate of the “fruit of knowledge” she would not have known what dissatisfaction was. She and Adam walked with God, for goodness sake. They had no want of anything. I think where the deceiver got Eve was in that he made her believe that she would be “like God.” Isn’t that what we all want? To be like Christ? I don’t think she was fully aware of “how” she would become like God- having full knowledge of sin. The bible is very sparing in it’s instruction that women “love” their husbands, but when it is mentioned, it is in the form of respect and honor and mutual submission. I think the problem, in fact I know the problem, with today’s marriages, especially in our society, is that we have a sense of entitlement. I do this, so you should do that. It doesn’t work that way. We’re not “entitled” to anything! We are called to love one another unconditionally, as Christ loved us, no matter whether the other person deserves it or not! The longer we say he did that or she doesn’t do this, so I dont’ love them…the longer marriages will fall apart. We all need to put on our God covered glasses and see our mates the way that God sees them as beautiful, unconditionally loved people. No less. I say it again. We must lose our sense of entitlement. You deserve nothing and neither does anyone else, but we should give it anyway. I hope that makes sense. Blessings to you.
I know several, and am watching two marriages close to me unravel in very messy ways
SA
What a great post! You touched on so many important questions and I love your sense of perspective. I was happy to see that it’s “to be continued” at the bottom. Thanks for leading me here!
Peace and Blessings Manchild, I would like to start with my thoughts on your post by first looking at the facts, the fact is that when GOD engineered woman, he created her with the ability to use both sides of her brain. It is a scientific fact that man does not have this ability. With that said, woman have the ability to see beyond what is in front of her. Just like you said, GOD makes NO mistakes, I believe that GOD’s intentions were to present the first test of faith amongst his perfect beings by making woman the way that he did knowing that the first down low brother was creeping! This was the birth of curiosity. Curiosity, itself should be named one of the deadly sins because in the minds of women and men it appears to be an innocent thought process, but it is that insatiable, instinctive drive of curiosity that allows us to crossover that line into the world of sin! As for today’s issues with marriages and infidelity, I call it the recreation of Babylon and again it curiosity is the culprit! And as far as Eve not being satisfied, I believe she was, she just saw that there was something else and was curious and went for it and that issue is separate entirely, at least in the mind of a woman!
Very nice article! I have a little different take on the story of Adam and Eve (smile)… I see it more mythological so my perspective may be a bit out of sync with your thoughts. (I totally love hearing the opinions, ideas, and insights from all perspectives on this topic so if its ok, I share my thoughts)
The way I see it is … six thousand years ago, relationships were very much different than they are today. I’ve read literally everything I can find on the topic of the origins and history of marriage, patriarchy, and relationships, and it seems to me, that marriage today does not much resemble marriages of six millennia ago, at least in our modern world. I have the sense that the love, emotional intimacy, romance, compassion, etc., we desire in marriage today were not much of a concern six thousand years ago. There was more emphasis on duty, obligations, contracts, diligence, etc. Also, women’s thoughts and concerns were not addressed during this time by nomadic groups, which is why I believe there is little about Eve in the Bible. OK, I could talk about this topic for days.. seriously! It is one of my all time favorite things to discuss! Thanks for posting your thoughts and giving me some fun stuff to contemplate! Nice to chat with you, as always! Jen
WOW!
What a great post, and what great readers you have!!!
It’s great because you have some real doctrine to offer.
My site is not quite doctrinally-correct, and totally NOT politically correct.
Your talking pre-Vatican II, hello, Catholic to the core.
Y’all do know that the Church is 2000 years old? That the Church compiled the Bible? That the Church is the living body of Christ?
How old is your “church”? What pamphlets did your “church” put together?
I apologize for asking such harsh things, but I am a simple Christian and responding to this email.
God bless you,
TB
AND I’ll add…
Adam was THERE while Eve was being tempted.
Adam ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil without questioning.
Adam tried to blame his sin on his wife.
MAN!
Are we there yet?
Thankfully, my husband and I were friends for many years before we got together and got married. We have been married for four years now and are looking forward to many, many more together!
This post is the best, for a man you do have a good angle on marriage and some of the issues you raised are thought provoking also. Reading through your post as well as the comments left by readers is an enlightening experience.
I must say that this post has been really informative. I am a Catholic and your story puts things in a different perspective for me…it allowed me to see and think about certain things I never thought about before….
As far as the married question, I’m not a married person but I can answer based on others’ experiences. I do know certain people who are married, and hate they love each other. Personally I do not know how people go on living this lie…but based on certain circumstances, people are forced and have no choice.
Once again, great post, and I’m looking forward to reading more.
This is too deep but I am glad that I get to think about it. …..
I have some arguments which I would like to express:
1) I disagree that Adam or Eve was the ideal man or woman for each other. They didn’t have anything to compare with. The concept of “ideal partner” would never occur that time. I believe these two loved each other.
2) The snake or Satan didn’t seduce Eve away from Adam. And if Eve was weak, that didn’t mean that she didn’t love Adam. Satan attacks us by making us doubt God’s words. God said they can eat any fruit in Eden except for a fruit of that one tree… Adam and Eve obeyed God and enjoyed all the fruit in the garden except that fruit, but this snake made Eve doubt God’s words. “Do you really think you will die if you eat the fruit?”, the snake hissed. The snake was treacherous, vile, and deceiving. Let us not be swayed by the snake in our thought but instead focus and have faith in God’s words.
Wow. Manchild, whenever I read your blog, I am never disappointed. What an interesting perspective to have. Thought-provoking and I’m so glad you put it out there.
I admit that I am not the “Christian” that I am “supposed” to be (meaning that I do not strictly adhere to all the mores and tenets in the Bible). But I do enjoy hearing people’s rhetoric about issues like this.
I love that you are taking the lessons/stories from the Bible and attempting to adapt them to modern times, realizing that times have changed since the days of origin and since the days that the Bible was written.
As for the topic, I do believe Eve loved Adam and vice versa. They had no other choice. I agree with Anna (comment #31), about if there had been more choices. If God had given Adam three “perfect” women or if Eve could have been paired with any of three “perfect” men, who is to say what would have happened…
I loved reading this post and enjoyed the discussion. I make my comments not to disparage any viewpoint. This is definitely a multi-part post and I look forward to reading the next one.
[...] Did Eve really love Adam? If so how was she tempted? Manchild waxes philosophically about this and how it affects today’s marriages. [...]
hello Manchild
thanx for respeonding! I left you a message I love your blog!
christina
Very thought provoking! I wonder what dialogue brother Michael Baisden could raise on talk radio if he had your well studied material!?……..and invited you to respond.
Thanks man child, for your visit to my blog , nice blog here
Wow. That is very heavy deconstruction for a sunday morning. All i can say is this is a very interesting post. And as you know from my blog – i still debate whether i’m agnostic or athesiest (this post pushes me toward the athesiest) and I still don’t get men and their desires. And yes, I know what I want from a man. And am quite happy with explaining them….
Great Job!
[...] Roderick has a vibrant voice, delivering a message that resonates. His post “Love, Sex and Relationships” examines the relationship between Adam and Eve. While his powerful and provocative viewpoints got everyone talking, the post also inspired me to revisit the stories of my Catholic upbringing and to consider the first tale of gender relations in a modern context. Soul-searching stuff. [...]
Wow, that is an interesting perspective. You questioned the institution of “Christian” marriage by introducing secular concepts.
First, the church today does not teach the Bible in regards to the institution of marriage. Today’s churches teach a combination of philosophy, psychology, myths, Victorianism, etc. with a tiny bit (very fragmented, incomplete, and incorrect) of Biblical teachings. Do we actually think that God would honor this? Taking His word. mixing it with the doctrines of man, and in a state of dilusion believing it is Christian. The 600 ton gorilla in the room is this. Why, after 40 years of teaching the same junk, do we find Christian marriages in a lesser state of health when compared to secular marriages. This is a question no one is willing to really investigate.
When it comes to Eve loving Adam, we must assume she did. Anything done outside of love is empty (1Cor 13:1). We also see love being expressed from the wife in the Song of Solomon – I would strongly recommend you read this. Just because Eve does not mention love does not mean it did not exist. For the wife not to love her husband is a non Biblical position.
Biblical love is pursuant, NOT responsive. Responsive love is the way of the word and psychology and we have seen how well that works. The Bible clearly teaches us to love even when circumstances are not optimal – remember: Love thy enemy….
When it comes to throwing Eve under the bus, everyone accused someone else except for Satan. The lesson here was that no one took responsibility for their own actions – a lesson we could learn today.
The Bible or word of God has the answers if we only apply the whole word of God and stop resisting.